How to Write Construction Demand Letters That Get You Paid

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Do you know the first step to take when your customer on a construction project has an overdue invoice? It’s deceptively simple: Ask them to pay.

Whether you’ve tried unsuccessfully, or just don’t know where to start- join construction attorney Brion Berkley and payment expert Carah Vallejo for a live webinar on how to effectively use demand letters to get paid.

You’ll hear:

  • When demand letters are the best option
  • Why 90% of failed demand letters weren’t effective
  • What to do if the recipient of your letter doesn’t pay

 

Speaker 1 (00:05):
First of all. Thank you to everyone for joining our webinar today on how to write construction, demand letters that get you paid. As I mentioned, just a moment ago, my name is Kara. Um, I’m a construction payment expert at level set, and we also have Brian Berkeley, a construction attorney. And Brian, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
All right. Um, good morning or good afternoon to everybody depending on where you are. Uh, my name is Brian Berkeley. I am a construction law attorney. I also teach cons law for the contractor state licensing schools in the state of California. Um, I was previously a mediator court, mediator, and small claims courts and also unlawful detainers that’s evictions in California. And prior to all of that, I was a contractor contractor since 2005, a general B contractor, and, um, have had to write a number of demand letters of my own while I was a contractor.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
All right. All right. So you are definitely a subject matter expert. <laugh> fantastic. Okay. So why don’t you give us, um, just some basics of a construction demand letter.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right. Uh, a demand letter is basically an objective argument as to why you are entitled to whatever it is you’re demanding in your case. It’s gonna be payments. Um, you wanna have your demand letter be reasonable. Uh, you want to be polite with what you write. Uh, it’s an objective letter. And for most people, when they get a demand letter, when your client gets a demand letter, most of them are gonna pay, Hey, most reasonable people will pay. They’ll see your objective reasonable argument, and they’ll go ahead and send you a payment. Um, if you’re dealing with somebody who is not reasonable, if you’ve got a crazy client and there are some of them out there, I mean the vast majority appliance are good people, but, uh, some of them are, you know, they’re not reasonable. So if you’ve got somebody like that, your demand letter is gonna serve as evidence it’s gonna serve as evidence to their attorney. When their attorney gets involved, it’s gonna serve of his evidence to the trier of fact, which is either the judge or jury that you tried the best you could to provide, um, the client, the homeowner, the opportunity to pay what you are owed, and it’s gonna clearly express why you’re, what you’re owed. Um, since it’s, um, you’re stating the objective reason why you’re entitled to, uh, what you’re demanding. It’s very clear. It, it’s very important to be very clear in what you write. Um, and you want to be very careful in what you write.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Awesome. Perfect. I think that’s a great overview of what a, uh, construction demand letter is and hits some basics. So the next question, um, is kind of just a, another overview. Um, we went over most of these, um, but I also like the, the concise amount of a payment dispute and having that in there as, you know, part of your evidence, as you said,

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. Yeah. Um,

Speaker 1 (03:56):
What types of demand letters? Oh, what types of payment should demand, can demand letters include for us?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Uh, what types of payments can it include? Yeah, well, it depends on the phase of the project you’re at, if your, if you’ve got a contract and you’ve got a scheduled payments and there’s, you know, a lot of payments have gone by, um, and they’ve paid all of, but all of a sudden they stop paying. Okay. It’s it is like, what is the reason that they stop paying? Um, do they have a legitimate reason that they stop paying? I mean, did you do some horrible work, um, or are you passing all your inspections and then per whatever reason they stopped paying you, maybe they don’t have the funds. Uh, at that point you can send a demand letter saying that they have to bring their account due. Um, but I don’t know about other states, but in California, there are certain requirements that you have to comply with when you send such a demand letter and there’s statutes that you have to comply of it. Um, if it’s at the end of the project, which is usually when it happens, when you’re sending out a man letter at the end of the project, um, you’re sending it out before you have to file a mechanic slip or before you have to get the attorneys involved. So it de depends what kind of demand letter and why you send it out depends on the phase of the project. Has it been completed or is it not completed in it’s somewhere during the course project

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Of the project itself? Yeah, so they’re all very project based. Okay. Yes. Fantastic. So this might be a little bit lengthy, but how, how to write one, how, you know, how do we write one and what do we do? And, you know, this is a little bit high level we’ll get into for our audience here. This is a little bit high level. We’ll get into some specific examples in the coming slides. Um, you know, but just from a 10, let’s call it 10,000 foot view, you know, how do you begin writing a demand letter?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
So how you begin writing a demand letter is you start at the beginning of the project. <affirmative> what I mean by that is that you start with your contract, your contract, that you write, that you give to the homeowner that you sign and that the homeowner signs should be very clear about the obligations of the homeowner and your obligations as the contractor. So I start at the beginning, um, what does your contract say? There’s basic elements of contract formation. Um, doesn’t matter what the contract is. If it’s a construction contract or any other kind of contract there’s basic requirements that are included in a, in contract, then those include parties. That’s you and the homeowner, the subject matter for you. It’s a construction contract, uh, the price, how much they’re supposed to pay you and the time of performance. So you wanna include at least those four elements in your demand letter, you’re saying, Hey, Mr.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Homeowner, or Mrs. Homeowner, you and I have this contract. We signed this contract in such and such state. It was for the subject, matter of what, for the plans, for the estimate that you provided on such and such date. And it was for the price of 10,000 bucks, a million bucks, whatever it was for. And the project start date for the contract was approximately such and such date was to be completed in a certain amount of time. I completed it within that amount of time. If you didn’t, this is the reason why these are the change orders for the change orders. This is why it was extended. You include that base information in the contract. Um, that’s the basic for your demand letter.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Great. Oh, I apologize, Brian. No, go for it. I was just gonna say, we have a question here in the chat box. Um, Gina says, what if there’s no official contract? Only email communication.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Oh, uh, what state are you in Gina? Um,

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I don’t have her state, but she may don’t have her state.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Okay. Texas, Texas. Okay. I, I don’t know about Texas and I, I apologize. Um, I only know about California, but if, if you have a contract, so you’re that you have a contract and, and I assume in Texas it’s okay. That the contract formation is all by writings by email. Is that correct for Texas or

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Could be? We can definitely, we can definitely get Gina, um, in contact with someone in Texas that can get a more robust, um, explanation with Texas, uh, Texas law. So be, uh, this is more for professional services.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
All right. Um, California tends to be more harsh. I think on contractors, more strict about what they can do and cannot do with homeowners. And it requires in California that, uh, construction contracts with homeowners be in writing. So they has there to be a formal contract. You can’t just be by email, but if you do have an email, if in your state, that’s allowed that you can have a contract formation by email, then you just make sure that you have those basic terms, um, in a contract because that’s basic contract law that you at least have those for elements for the parties, subject, price, and time. Um, so you wanna be able to explain that you wanna be able to refer back to the email and such and such date stating the terms of the contract, and you wanna be able to refer back to their email, that accepted those terms.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Awesome. So we do have another question here from Larry. Um, before we move on, he says we are a sub tier contractor on a job. The GC and the subcontractor are disagreeing on whether the subcontractor has been paid in full. Do we send a demand letter to both? Mm,

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Hello, one second. The GC and the subcontractor are disagreeing on whether the subcontractor has been paid in full, um, send a demand letter to both. Yeah, I think I would, because, I mean, if they’re disputing, whether you’ve been paid or not, um, you want that course, you want them all involved in the negotiation. I mean, that could be that the GC paid the sub and the sub hasn’t paid you, or it could be that the sub was never paid by the GC either way. One of ’em is lying. So you want to send that to both of them. So they’re all involved in the dispute. And if that goes to litigation, um, it could be that you might have to Sue both of them. Um, normally you could only Sue the subcontractor, but if the GC, if the GC is lying, that could arguably be fraud. So you wanna make sure that your respond includes both of them. Good question. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
That is a great question. Um, Brian, do you wanna take a couple more questions or do we wanna say for Q and

Speaker 2 (11:50):
A, you wanna do it? I like the questions. <laugh>

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Awesome. Um, so we work for commercial properties and contractors will the same elements still apply,

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Uh, commercial properties and contractors. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Those four basic elements apply to every contract in the world, whether it’s a construction contract, whether you’re buying a beer at a bar, the same elements apply. Of course, if you’re buying a beer at a bar, um, it’s not gonna be a formal written contract, but it’s a verbal agreement between you and the bartender could just be based on your actions. But, um, those four basic elements apply to every single I like that. Sorry about the background noise. If you hear some background noise.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh, that’s okay. I can’t hear anything, so. Oh, great.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
You’re all good. <laugh>

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Um, awesome. So I’m gonna read this question aloud. Um, but if you also wanna read it to yourself, go for it. Uh, similar question is Gina. I’m a construction manager manager in California without a contractor’s license. I don’t think I can pre lean or lean a project beyond the demand letter. Do I have any other remedies besides getting an attorney involved?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Hmm, well, Rick, you’re a construction manager in California. Um, yeah, you probably wanna get an attorney involved, um, because you might be able to argue breach a contract. It depends on who you’re dealing with, and it depends on your role as a construction manager where you just helping the homeowner out by managing the project, or were you actually installing something? Were you actually doing physical work on the project? If you were doing physical work on the project and you do not have a contractor’s license, you may be exposing yourself to a lot of liability. If you try and pursue a legal, legal remedy. So you definitely want to an attorney that specializes in construction law before you send out a demand letter. Okay. Thank you. Good question.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, that was a great question. Um, okay. So we have one here about liens, uh, says, please explain the number of days for fi filing liens and perfecting it in California.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay. Um, generally you’ve got 90 days to file a mechanic slip in California. And, but that can vary, that can vary depending on if a notice of completion was filed by the prime con tractor general contractor, usually, um, or the homeowner, if they file the notice of completion, it shortens your day to file a lead. It shortens your timeframe to file a lead, excuse me. So if you’re the prime contractor, it shortens it down to 60 days. If you’re a subcontractor, it shortens it down to 30 days. Uh, so you want to get on that as soon as possible. Um, once you have filed a lead, you only have 90 days to file the foreclosure action. And if you have not filed the foreclosure action within 90 days, um, you have to release the link and then you’re limited to filing a lawsuit based on breach of contract. And you can only file a lawsuit based on breach of contract against whoever it is you contracted with. If you did not contract with a homeowner, then you cannot file a lawsuit against the homeowner who breach a contract. Um, good question. All right.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Thank you. Yeah, we did have a follow up from Chad, um, that he hasn’t had problems with payments from commercial owners. Um, but that he has had issues with contractors while consulting for them. He’s not doing the physical work. So I don’t know if that changes your hand,

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Um, if you’re consulting for them and not doing physical work, uh, you’re probably good to go for filing a lawsuit against those contractors. Uh, but you definitely want to talk to an attorney before you do that because you are gonna need an attorney to help you with a process. Um, if you don’t wanna pay the full expense of having an attorney, do everything for you, some attorneys will work in a limited capacity, but you definitely want it consult with an attorney before you do that. Good question. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay. Um, so do demand letters really help? I think, um, based on some of these questions that we’ve answered and some of the things we’ve talked to, I, I can personally say that. Yes, I do believe that demand led demand letters really do help. Um, and I loved having all of those questions. I think we’re going to move past this slide, cause I really want to get into some of the examples and the rest of the meat of our, um, presentation here. So, you know, what are the specifics of the demand letter process and what examples do you have? Um, Brian, in terms of those,

Speaker 2 (17:09):
All right. What are the specifics of the demand letter process? All right. So say you, you haven’t gotten paid and it’s been more than 30 days still. Haven’t gotten paid. It’s coming up to the point where you’re gonna lose your ability to file a mechanics lie if you don’t get paid. Um, so what do you do with the demand letter? What are the specific about it? Well, um, I think it’s always best to start up with a phone call. The reason why you wanna start up with a phone call is because if it gets to court, judges want to hear that you really try to communicate with this person and you did so in a reasonable way, you pick up the phone, you call somebody that’s what people do when they negotiate. Um, so you do that first because then if they hang up or, you know, they don’t pick up the phone, you can refer to that in your demand letter, you can be like, hello, Mr.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Homeowner, uh, I tried calling you on since such and such date. Um, you didn’t pick up or I wasn’t able to get ahold of you, and then you go into the specifics of the demand letter. Um, oh, but you’re talking about the specifics of the demand letter process. Okay. So you start with that statement that you try to call them, and then you go into the details of what your demand letter is and you try and be very objective and, and you get to those four basic elements. Um, in certain states, I assume they have different criteria about how you deal with change orders, how you deal with mechanics liens. Um, do you have to include all that stuff in there? Maybe, maybe not. Uh, it depends on the situation. Uh, and then after you send out the demand letter, you wait a certain amount of time for them to respond.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
It’s always good to be able to tell them how much time they have to respond. Um, and it’s good to refer to the deadline for filing the mechanic, leave in your letter in part why you want to do you. That is because you’re putting them on notice that this was the completion date. I have X amount of days to file the mechanic slip. If I don’t get any response from you, I’m gonna file the mechanic slip and you do so in a very polite way, you don’t have to be rude about it. Um, now if I’m so sorry about that background noise, we’ve got some cleaners here. Um, if they, uh, if they later object and say, Hey, you didn’t file the mechanics lean on time. Well, then you can say back to them, where is your objection to the date that I said, it said was the completion date and my demand letter, if they never to it, their argument that you file too late is probably not gonna hold a lot of water. It’s not gonna hold a lot of weight. Um, now if they object to the date of completion before you file the mechanics lane, then you just go ahead and file the mechanics slip. Um, okay. Hopefully I answered that.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yes, yes, absolutely. And, and you know, what I’m gathering from today really is, um, to be specific, to be polite and to get everything in writing, um, among the other more detailed, uh, you know, line items that we’ve spoken about, you know, those three really stand out as I’m listening and distilling everything, you know, that you’re saying. So what I am most excited to hear today are some of the success stories of contractors using demand letters, um, that you have seen Brian,

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Um, well, every demand letter I sent out it, they were all brief. They’re all to the point. And, um, you know, I, I didn’t put any emotion in it, basically like, this is what I’m owed. This is why I’m owed that amount. Please pay me. And I can’t think of one time that I was not paid except for a family member because, you know, family members dealing with other family,

Speaker 1 (21:35):
That’s a whole other set

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Of rules. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s another set of rules, but, um, other than dealing with that one family member, um, I always got paid, but part of that is you this knowing the laws in your state regarding construction, law, whatever those are, and knowing that you’re complying with those construction law rules in your state, um, the other part is verifying your client, um, validating your client. Do you have good clients? Do you have bad clients? Are you, um, are you picking bad clients and is that causing you problems? Um, how is your client relationships? And, uh, if you have good client relationships, you’re probably not gonna have a lot of problems, but there are always some crazy people out there and you’re eventually you’re gonna come across the, uh, the longer you’re in, you’re in business. You’re gonna have a few crazy clients, um, success stories of using demand letters.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
So yeah, it worked almost every time for me when I was a contractor, as an attorney, you know, I’m dealing with a lot more crazy people than I did when I was as a contractor. And, um, I never know if a demand letter is gonna result in my client getting paid or not. Sometimes it does. And it’s really nice. Um, there was, uh, one time where I had a former student, he contacted me and was not yet a contractor. He didn’t have a contractor’s license yet. He was working for another contractor, him and his family were working for another contractor. Um, and they were being paid as independent contractors. That’s not legal in the state of California. He, unless you’re licensed in the state of California, you’re not an independent contractor. So what that general contractor was doing with my student was illegal, um, for a variety of reasons in California.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Now, when I wrote the demand letter, I wanted to be very careful because you don’t wanna point out criminal activity that, that other person is doing it in your demand letter. The reason why you don’t want to do that is because it’s extortion. And that is a criminal act by you, yourself, that you could commit. If you’re demanding, pay me this money, or I’m gonna report you to the district attorney’s office, um, or I’m gonna report you to the contractor state life that is arguably extortion. So you gotta be really careful. So I sent him a demand letter, but I did not refer to the criminal acts that he was doing. I only let him know that in the state of California, he’s got it and pay, uh, unlicensed people as employees, not independent contractors, please pay them. And he did. And I was surprised. I thought it was gonna result in more work on my behalf. So I was a little bit disappointed because that was less money for me, but my client was really happy cuz he got paid right away. So your demand letter could be very effective. Um, but you gotta be very careful in how you write it. All right. Thank you. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I, that was a great example. That was fantastic. Um, so I believe the next question here. Oh, my slides are frozen. I apologize. You all just a moment. Um, but I believe the next question here is what can people do if a, if the demand letter isn’t actually effective?

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Oh, um, here we go. If the demand letter isn’t affected, you’ve got options. Um, in the past you could go to the homeowner’s house from the door and demand payment. Um, gotta be really careful with that because it could, uh, get you into trouble. Um, but did happen a lot in the past. And uh, usually it resulted in the contractor getting paid, but now people have video cameras on their house. They have video cameras on their door knobs and people have cell phones that they can record you with. So if you’re not polite about how you’re knocking on the door and demanding payment, you might have the police call on you. So you gotta be really careful. And I don’t necessarily recommend doing that anymore. We don’t want, no, you don’t wanna have the, a police or Sheriff’s department come out. Uh, if you have a dispute with a homeowner and if you got a homeowner who’s like kind of manipulative and kind of crazy, they’re gonna call the police.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
So I don’t recommend doing that. You can file the mechanics lean. There are certain requirements and certain hoops that you have to jump through with filing the mechanics lean. So you definitely want help, um, from a company like level set in doing that. So because you gotta be really careful because if you don’t jump through those who correctly, you might lose your ability to, uh, have a mechanic sleep, have a valid mechanic sleep. Um, what else can you do? So hold on, I’m looking at my notes here. Uh, mechanics lane, they’re incredibly effective in getting paid in the reason why is they create a lot of leverage, as long as you’re jumping through all the hoops correctly, they provide a lot of leverage on your behalf against the homeowner. Uh, the, um, no homeowner likes the thought of losing their home due to make mechanic sleep.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
If you think about the home to a homeowner, what it means to a homeowner, it means it’s an incredible lot to them. It’s their most valuable asset. They, uh, they are putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into their home, especially in California in a crazy amount that they’re putting in, especially. Yeah. And, and if they care about their home enough that they’re contacting a contractor to improve their home, they care about it even more. If they got a construction loan to improve their home, they care about it an incredible lot. Uh, they’re home, it’s their, it’s their future. It’s their retirement, it’s everything to them. So if you file a mechanics, lie against them, that is gonna get their attention. They’re gonna care a lot about that. And most of them will take it very seriously. Uh, not all of them, but most of them will. And it’s a good chance that you’re gonna get paid. Um, but you got in, at least in California, you’ve only got a certain amount of time to do it, to either get paid or file your lawsuit. So if you don’t get paid right away, or if they’re in not calling you up and wanting to negotiate, then you definitely need to contact the attorney quickly.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
All right. Thank you. Is a great segue here. Um, and I know we’re just, we’re right here at time. Um, so I, you know, with the, you know, when should attorney be involved in sending demand letters? Um, maybe just a couple of, of quick rules of thumb here, cuz I know we also have some questions that I’m, I’m dying to get answered. So,

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Uh, in general, always. And what I mean by that is you want an attorney to review your demand letter. If you get to the point where you have to send a demand letter out to a client, um, things are not good. Things are not great. So you wanna, when you write your demand letter, you wanna sound reasonable of objective and polite, but you need an attorney to review it. I think, I think it’s always best to have an attorney review it, uh, because you don’t wanna put in stuff there, that’s gonna get you into trouble and a construction law attorney can make sure that you’re right in a way that’s not gonna get you into trouble. You can expect if the client is crazy and they, instead of paying you, they get an attorney and they wanna say, they’re gonna Sue you instead. You wanna make sure that when you send out that demand letter, there’s no grounds in the letter that would elicit would result in you getting sued yourself. So I think it’s always best unless you’re got a really strong knowledge base in construction law, unless you’re entirely confident in what you write, uh, in general, it’s best to get an attorney involved to at least review it. You don’t want the attorney to send it unless it’s absolutely necessary, but you do want an attorney to review it.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Thank you. All right. That’s fantastic. Um, so let’s see here. We do have a few questions. Um, let’s start with this one because I think that it is a, a perfect segue into what we were just talking about. Um, and that is re extortion. I’m a material supplier. When I send demand letters, I include a blurb that says when I process, when I proceed with lean, I also proceed with complaint with board of contractors as applicable. Is that a bad thing? I apologize for my tripping over those words,

Speaker 2 (31:47):
I send them a demand letters. A that says also pursue complaint board of contractors is, uh, it depends on what you’re saying. If you’re saying, pay me this money or I’m gonna, you that’s arguably extortion. Um, so you wanna be careful on how you write it now, if that’s totally fine in whatever state you’re in. And if that’s a basic thing that people write in the state, you’re in, just make sure you contact an attorney in your state that does construction law and see if that statement is okay. Um, do people in California, do they do attorneys sometimes write, Hey, if you don’t do this, I’m gonna report you to the CSLB. That’s the contractor, state license board in California. Or if you, you know, don’t do this, I’m gonna report you to whatever authorities. Yeah, it happens all the time, but you’re not supposed to do it. And, um, you know, it’s, there’s attorneys who got into a lot of trouble for that. Like, uh, I believe his name was Michael. I believe an attorney in LA. He got into a big trouble when he demanded way more than his client was owed. Um, and he said, if you didn’t do it, he is gonna report whoever to, I don’t know it was the IRS or the FBI or something like that. Um, the add is extortion, especially when you’re demanding way more than you’re actually owed. Uh, but it depends on your state. It depends on what’s allowed in your state and what is not

Speaker 1 (33:32):
All right. Great answer. So we, I believe we have, um, one more question. Maybe two, if we can get them in. Um, Roberts says we are a certified disabled veteran owned contractor, large prime contractor, and subprime used our certification, won the state multimillion dollar project and did not use, uh, did not pay us any money to our company. It’s been 22 months now and both agree. They owe us money, but we’ve seen no payment as of yet. This is in the state of California.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Okay. It’s been 22 months and you have not been paid then. Ugh. Um, that’s a in CA yeah, in California, you only have four years to file a lawsuit based on breach of written contracts. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it’s, if it’s been 22 months and you haven’t been paid, you need to contact an attorney and you probably are gonna need to file the lawsuit. Um, I don’t see what else is gonna get their attention if you reach that point already. Um, so I recommend you contact attorney today, you know, as soon as possible.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yes. Um, and then last question here. Can you file a lie if you don’t file a 20 day,

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Uh, in California? No. In California, you are out of luck. So I assume you’re the subcontract. And if you’re the subcontractor, you never gave out a 20 day preliminary notice. No you can’t. Um, if you’re still working on the project, you can serve the, uh, the homeowner with the prelim preliminary 20 day notice. Um, but it’s only good up to 20 days before you served it. So if you did a whole bunch of work before those 20 days, that’s not gonna be part of your lean. Um, so it depends a lot on where are you with the project. If you’ve already finished it months have gone by you’re outta luck, but you can still Sue the general contractor. You can still file a lawsuit against the general contractor.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Good question. That is a great question. Um, well we are a few minutes over time, but I am so grateful that there were so many questions that came through. I think that there were a lot of great answers, a lot of great conversations to be had. Um, thank you all so much for joining. We have a lot of collateral. That’s gonna go out surrounding demand letters, lean law, et cetera. Um, as well as some of the resources we have for you. So, um, be on the lookout for those. Thank you. Jamele says thank you to the host. Um, thank you again, Brian, for coming. We really appreciate it. And um, hope everyone has a wonderful end of the year. Thank you all so much.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
All right. Thank you everybody. Bye.